Daughter of the Acting Warden During the Most Famous Escape

Jolene Babyak lived on the Rock in 1954-1955 and also 1962. Her father was acting warden when Warden Blackwell was on vacation, which happened during the most famous escape attempt on Alcatraz. She is a premiere Alcatraz author and historian.

Interviewed by Gennifer Choldenko in Berkeley, California, on July 10, 2013

1. How did it feel to be the Associate Warden’s daughter?
  My dad was just my dad. I was pretty unconscious at the age of 15. I was just trying to figure out who I was. If anything it might have embarrassed me a little bit.
2. Did you feel more responsible because you were the warden’s daughter?
  No.
  Jolene Babyak
3. Did you get special treatment?
  The only thing I remember happening was once I missed the boat and the pilot, Pat Mahoney, turned the boat around to go back and get me. It was just a little turnaround but it was embarrassing at the time. Later I wondered if it was because I was the A.W.’s daughter. But he assured me that it was because he liked me!
4. Any downside to being the Warden’s daughter?
  There was a girl on the island who I thought didn’t like me because it was rumored that her dad had been up for the job. But my father got the promotion instead.
5. Are you the person who determined which was Al Capone’s cell? And if so, how were you able to document this?
  John Martini and I worked on this together. There were three different numbering systems on the cells. When Al Capone came to Alcatraz the original numbering system was in place. By creating a grid of all three numbering systems we were able to determine which was Al Capone’s cell. (Cell #181).
6. Given the mythology around Alcatraz, what are some of the guidelines you use to determine fact from fiction?
  I only use primary sources and documents. I read books and newspapers for color (quotes, attitude) but generally not for facts.
 7. What are some of the most surprising facts you’ve discovered about Alcatraz?
  The size of the cells. (5’x 9’). I was shocked by how small they were. Also, I was surprised by how collegial some of the prisoners and the guards were. You can’t work in an environment that is hateful all the time. People found the humanity where they could.
8. Were there ever any kids on the island who you thought shouldn’t be there?
  No, if you got in trouble, your dad got in trouble and then you’d be in trouble when you got home too.
9. In your book, Eyewitness on Alcatraz, you talk about getting a hand ball from a prisoner. You said “It was a proud moment; I had in my hand the most valuable item on Alcatraz—the coveted black handball that had rolled down the hill from the prison yard wall.” One of the questions kids always ask me, is what happened to that ball? They want to know if it’s on eBAY or what?
  I don’t have that exact handball. But I was fortunate enough to be the recipient of another handball, also from a prisoner on Alcatraz. That one I still have.
10. You were living on the island during the 1962 Morris-Anglin escape; can you tell me what that felt like?
  The escape was fun. If it had been two a.m. and there had been guns it would have been scary, but we found out at seven a.m. It was broad daylight. My mother came in and I could tell by her voice she was excited, because life would be different that day. We had to go into the cellar and I grabbed a paring knife. That part was a little scary. My mother made me go first.
11. Why?
  Because I had the paring knife.
12. As an Alcatraz historian who has spent the better part of her life researching Alcatraz, is it your opinion that the men in the 1962 escape attempt, (the Anglin brothers and Frank Morris) drowned or do you think they made it?
  The Anglin brothers were show-offs; it would have been impossible for them to hide out without telling anyone. (There’s no fun in that.)

Morris was quiet, but he had no relatives and few resources. They weren’t like James “Whitey” Bulger, who also spent time on the Rock. Years later, Bulger landed on the Ten Most Wanted list for almost two decades before he was caught in 2011. When found, he had stashed more than $800,000 in cash in his apartment. That’s after not working for two decades! Morris and the Anglins were small-time criminals with no money except what they could steal.


Jolene Babyak has published numerous books on Alcatraz including: Eyewitness on Alcatraz; Breaking the Rock, the Great Escape from Alcatraz; and Birdman: The Many Faces of Robert Stroud. She has interviewed scores of former residents, prisoners and guards, reviewed hundreds of Alcatraz files, and is currently working on another book about life on Alcatraz. 


Toughest Convict on the Rock

Robert Luke, Alcatraz convict #1118, was on the island from 1954-1959. Alcatraz was his sixth prison. No trouble with the law since Alcatraz.

Interviewed by Gennifer Choldenko in Cotati, CA, on February 23, 2013

Robert Luke

1. While on Alcatraz, did you dream of being free?
  All the time.
2. Were you afraid during your years on Alcatraz?
  Never. I had a reputation for being extremely violent. People were careful around me. The only time I was afraid on Alcatraz was when I came back a few years ago and the ranger asked me to speak to the public.
3. What did you do to pass the time on Alcatraz?
  I read two or three books a week. (Checked out from the cell house library). I like history. I must have read The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire three or four times. When I read a book, I actually become a part of it. My imagination helped, too. Sometimes I would take a trip up in my head.
4. Did you ever play baseball in the Rec Yard on Alcatraz?
  Yes. I was a fielder. There was only one fielder as we had six-man teams. There was no room in the recreation yard for more.
5. What happened when the ball went over the wall?
  If it went over the right field wall it was an automatic out. If it went over the center field wall it was a home run. If it went on the roof of the cell house it was good for two bases.
6. You have said your cell was “the size of a pool table “did it ever feel like home?
  No. We called it our house, but not a home.
7. I’ve heard you say that you didn’t seriously consider an escape from Alcatraz because as a US Navy man you understood how difficult it would be to swim to freedom given the currents in the bay and the temperature of the water. If you were to plan an escape from Alcatraz, how would you do it?
  The only chance would be if you worked outside. I was never allowed to work outside because I was an escape risk. The last warden was lax. He didn’t check the cells. That’s one of the reasons the (1962) escape happened.
8. What question do you get asked the most?
  Did you know Al Capone?
9. Capone died before your time on Alcatraz, of course.
  Yes. But if I had been in prison with him, I would have kept my distance. I stayed away from connected criminals because they often have influence over the police or the guards.
10. But you knew Machine Gun Kelly, right?
  Yes, he played bridge on the recreation yard.
11. Did you have visits on Alcatraz?
  Only one. I didn’t like visits because they reminded me too much of what it was like outside.
12. What was your worst day on Alcatraz?
  My worst days were the 29 days I spent in the disciplinary cells on Alcatraz.
13. Did you ever see the kids who lived on the island?
  No.
14. What jobs did you have while on Alcatraz?
  I worked in the mess hall, the laundry and the glove shop.
15. Did you ever see contraband come through the laundry?
 

No. They searched all the laundry. But if you wanted something, you could get it.

In your book, you mention the fact that you were a good student. School was always easy for you.

16. What do you think made you cross the line and begin stealing?
  The excitement. I got carried away. I met someone who was doing it and the life just sounded exciting to me. It becomes easier the more you do it.
17. Why do you think you ended up on Alcatraz?
  I made the wrong choices. We are all born with the ability to make our own choices. But once you make the wrong choice, other people make your decisions for you.
18. Are there any Alcatraz movies that are accurate?
  If there was a completely true movie about prison, no one would go to it because it would be so boring. It’s the boredom that gets you.
19. You were one of the few men who were released directly from Alcatraz. How did it feel to leave?
  The colors and immense distances seemed astounding. I had just come from a place that had no color, and the farthest you could walk in one direction was less than 100 yards. The whole experience was really overwhelming.

I felt better on the plane because it was a confined space.*

*Answer directly from Entombed In Alcatraz

20. What would you tell a kid growing up today?
  Go to school. Learn to read. The literacy rate of cons is so high. Make the right choices.
21.

I’ve heard you say that since your years on Alcatraz you’ve never been in any trouble. Though you write you had: “a hair-trigger temper.” You wrote a powerful poem about this which is on the back cover of your book.

 

A Lament

That dark man
Still lives
Deep inside me
Waiting
But his armor
Is rusting
And he will soon
Deteriorate
Into dust
And so will
I

—Robert Luke

22. How did you manage your temper after Alcatraz?
  It took time. I learned to walk away from an argument before trouble started. I had a few problems with it, but gradually I gained control.
23. After Alcatraz, did you dream about being in jail?
  Yes. For fifty-one years I dreamt about prison. The prison dreams only stopped when I went back to Alcatraz and began speaking to the public about my experience. Before that, only my family and my best friend knew.
24. In your book, you talk about the epiphany you had while on Alcatraz. You say that you realized “the truth, that no one was responsible for my actions but me.” If you could offer words of wisdom to your 14-year-old self, what would they be?
  Your choices will get you in trouble if you make the wrong ones. If you make a wrong choice, pull your foot back.

Criminal history prior to Alcatraz: robbing banks, burglary, car theft and assault.

Sent to Alcatraz for attempted escape at Leavenworth.

No trouble with the law after Alcatraz. He has lived a happy, productive life for the last 54 years.

Author of Entombed on Alcatraz